general questions from beginners

Hello to all 'windys' out there... I was reading others' posts and an idea was posted for an area for beginners (me). I thought this a great idea and hope it can come to be. As for now, beginners questions right here....

As I have researched the vast amounts of information on the internet regarding wind power, I do have many general questions that I could use help with.
Say for instance,
One has a generator, hub, blades, tower, and an extension cord coming down, with a diode? rectifier? Then the power can only go from the generator down the power cord, correct? Should this then be connected to a battery which will be charged with the wind power and then that is connected to whatever sort of d/c to a/c inverter one has to power a/c things? Or does one additionally need a controller which will divert the power to a 'dump load' when the battery charge reaches a certain level? Can one use anything that uses d/c power as a 'dump load'? What do you all out there do? There are controllers for sale on ebay, any recommendations on a good one to get? Or controllers for sale elsewhere?

I do not have the electrical expertise to attempt a home made version...
With that being said, thanks to all of you who share their experiences and expertise with those of use who want to harness the power of the wind...Terry p.s. with the UK to USA translation comments, quite nice... and, I'd like to add tyres are tires over here across the pond... and in carpet layer terms, an English 'bolster' over here is called a 'stair tool'... Terry

I've heard a bolster called a "splodger" as well! :mrgreen:

Terry,

I am one of those pesky people who want to insist on designing before aquiring bits and building. With this in mind there are several fundamental decisions to make up front.

1) The amount of power you want to generate and what your expectations are from AE.

2) The type of system: A Grid Tie system, Battery Storage type system, A dedicated purpose type system.

3) The investment in time and money you are willing to commit to.

4) A realistic assessment of what you can legally erect on your property.

5) A realistic assessment of the prevailing wind speeds at your location.


Once you have answered these questions you are ready to begin designing a system. If the answer to #1 is, "I don't know, I just want to play", then it really doesn't matter what you build. The build itself is the goal, and the output can go to whatever you like, boil some rain water in a storm or whatever. If you expect to reduce grid usage in any serious manner, then you will need to define your project long before you start your build, and the design of the project will require answers to these basic questions.

Cheers,

Fish

Hello Fish, I must be your opposite, as I just get an idea and run with it, basically willy nilly except for lots of internet research along with the general idea.
I do have answears to most of the questions.
#1: I want to generate a small amount of power, to run approx 40-80 watts of power, for a small water pump and small air pump. Also I thought a 'dump load' of an auto headlight mounted near garage door would be cool.

#2: I feel certain a battery storage system would be ideal for my goal

#3: My initial investment amount is <$500.00 usd, which I am at the $200.00 point currently.

#4: As I live somewhat isolated near Lake Michigan in Wisconsin I have only 2 neighbors who don't care what I do regarding the windmill, they actually think this a silly waste of time, but said good luck with that... I can put up whatever I want, as I have a completely empty 1/2 acre field, totally fenced in, next to my detached garage, my 'perfect spot' for my windmill. My tower plan is between 20 and 30 feet tall. I am initally going to be using a 300 watt generator, a kit from ebay, genny, hub, blades, diode, I will be doing the rest with homemade, although I want to buy a controller, if necessary..

#5: The research indicates where I live the prevailing wind speeds are at level '3' of a 1-7 level, the low end of acceptable...

So I have done some planning, nowhere near enough for more serious 'windys'
but that's how I roll... Just a novice who has an idea and is more or less obsessed with the goal of a working windmill.... always, thanks for the replys, Terry

Since you have already selected a system and purchased it, I guess the next thing to do is figure out if what you bought will power your devices. Can you give us the specs or a link(s) to the specs? It sounds like you are piecing the system together...that is purchasing a "genny" from one source and a blade kit from another? I would strongly urge you to stop buying bits and do some planning :-) But let's start with what you have already bought and go from there.

Fish

Hi ya Fish! Sorry if I wasn't clear, my purchased 'kit' included a generator, hub, and blades. I haven't recieved it yet, although it should be here any day. 300 watt 90vdc .40hp treadmill motor, 3 air-x blades, balanced hub, blocking diode, and mounting bracket. ebay item 180435757918. Of course you are right about cobbling together bits and pieces, but my tools, shop, skills, and electrical knowledge are extreeeemly limited. Usually if I get going on an idea, I can manage to make it work one way or another...
With this 'kit' and my home built tower, base, and tail piece, I should be well on my way... I post here because I'll need advise on the rest of the process- especially the controller/battery bank/dump load/invertor setup to actually be able to use the windmill. I see in my mind making this 'version 1' and if successful results, upgrading in the future to a 'version 2' (more POWER)...
Not enough success with 'version 1', chalk it up to experience.... Of course I'll be posting my results... just hoping with good advise to have decent results, my poor planning aside... This is just for fun for me, I love tinkering, and I really kinda suck at it, but I'm definately not afraid to try and sometimes I suprise myself with successes! Always, thanks for replys. Terry

I think it will be hard pressed to make 5A, and I would be a bit concerned running it past 7A or so.

In a stiff wind (20MPH?) I would be fairly concerned it would burn itself up.
The resistance is too high to short it to a stop (more accurately, 'short it to a slow speed') in good wind.

Probably a decent platform for some experimenting.

I had no idea they even made treadmill motors that small.
The bearings may cause some problems. Often.
An old (sort of obsolete) rule of thumb is the blade diameter can be 100X the shaft diameter. That shaft doesn't look like 1/2".

"Diversion" causes confusion. Best think of it as DUMP.
It takes power from the battery, not the windmill, so nothing is being diverted.

Be careful with the dump loads on any well made, decently operating DUMP controller.
Inductive loads can ruin the best controllers.
Junk controllers may not mind, but they are junk.
G-

Terry,

I know you are thinking that ghurd's comment about 5A seems like an absurd figure. You are looking at 90W as .75A @ 120V. You are certain that the "battery" will "magic" the lulls in the wind, and that a 300W Wind turbine can CERTAINLY handle 90W. The problem is this is bad logic. Ok, horrible logic. You want 90W 24/7 which translates to 2.16kWh/Day, from the grid, a mere $0.22/day. The problem with this is that you have NO wind data other than, "zone x", but because you "only want a little power" a battery will fix the problem. You can figure a 90% de-rating factor over "maximum output" on any given 7 day stretch, so your battery needs to be able to cover 90% of the requisite power over a seven day period. 90W @ 12V = 7.5Ahr * 24 * 7 = 1260Ahr. This is an insane figure for batteries @ 50% draw down max. If you have daily thermals or other "regular winds", then you could greatly reduce the battery bank, but you have "sporadic winds" in your area. That requires extreme over engineering. It is a lot cheaper to over-build on the turbine side than the battery side.

I am NOT trying to be a "neggy-peggy", but you are headed toward defeat. I am not saying you can't "fix it", but you are working uphill toting a heavy sled. I know you feel you have set your sights "low", but you really have not grasped the whole "power" thing yet. I can spout a bunch of tables based on math, but you will still believe that a 300W HAWT will run your 90W pumps, I am simply telling you it prolly won't in your area for any reasonable amount of money. Have fun with your project. Build it and learn. Next time, lets do a little planning; ok, a LOT of planning. The AE world is not nearly so simple as plugging in a new piece of tech,it requires some deep thought.

I truly wish you well with your build, but I fear you will run into problems.

Fish

Hi ya Fish!!! I see we are online at the same time often, kinda cool dont'cha think?
I think a problem exists in that you are able to spout math, formulas, calculations that my simple mind cannot fully understand. I have a pathetic understanding of electricity.. Let me clarify... I know watts are volts x amps, correct? Uh,,, that's about it for me... Sorry, don't know even what amps are, or hertz or volts, really... I know auto batterys are 12volt batterys. I know you need an inverter to change dc to ac. I also know many others have made electric producing windmills to power small electirc 'things'. So, I should be able to also, right? My 'goal' , the fish tank pump(water and air, respectively) to be wind powered is on hold... Revised to simply erecting a windmill that will produce 'free' electricity...in a moderate amount. BTW the fish tank pumps are a mere 36 watts per the labels on each, the light it more at 40 watts, but isn't on 24/7 like the two small pumps. My simplistic mind says small windmill, small power, works for small devices. I have seen many many youtube videos of such successes. So I continue with my endeavor... I really do appreciate the advise, and as I have recieved the 'kit' last night, I will post the progress, right or wrong.
P.S. They are calling for 40mph wind gusts tonight!!! Oh boy oh boy oh boy!

Alas, patience is a virtue, and I have none...
I spent most of the day with my new kit, building tail section, mounting motor and blades affixing to my tower, only to find no suitable base. Ever resourseful, and just as it got really windy as night fell, I found a metal umbrella base for a patio table and behold, the tower pole slipped right into base, and it has a built in clamp, perfect..

Using a electrical cord from the motor now out in the field, (9 feet tall) to my garage 30 feet away I started reading the multi meter, and along with my 12v auto battery for visual proof, I have harnessed the power of the wind!!! What I found was the light would start to light at 1.6-1.8v and get brighter as the wind strengthened, and volts continued rising. Got quite bright around 5v and then you guessed it, went to zero as the windmill toppled over and blades broke. Apparantly using two 50 pound cement chunks as weights on umbrella base not enough weight. All I could do is laugh... me with a new toy out in the dark, on a windy, snowy night. Live and learn, right? So, never give up, I have to get new blades and try again, of course next time IN THE DAYLIGHT, with a FIRMLY SECURED TOWER BASE... Terry (my latest update)..... Still in search of any help/advise! p.s. extremely windy tonight!!!! 40+ mph gusts!!!