Sending output to a pump, and excess to battery

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morglum

Posts: 52

Joined: Mon Nov 16, 2009 2:27 pm

Location: Québec, Canada

Post Thu Jan 01, 1970 1:00 am

Hey all,

The titles (tries) to say it

Hey all,

The titles (tries) to say it all.

Basically Im working on both a wind turbine and a solar panel at the moment. They will be used to power an off-grid pump to aerate a farm irrigation pond to prevent e. coli.

Since going through the battery loses efficiency, I thought I would rather go straight from turbine to pump, and send the excess to a battery to be used later, than send all to the battery, and have the battery feed the pump at all time.

What do you think? And more importantly, any idea how I could do that?

Thanks!
Simon
(first post) :)
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ghurd

Senior

Posts: 674

Joined: Mon Nov 16, 2009 2:27 pm

Location: USA

Post Thu Jan 01, 1970 1:00 am

Hi.
Rutland do a wind powered water pump tha

Hi.
Rutland do a wind powered water pump that doesnt use a battery, just a clever interface apparently.
http://www.marlec.co.uk/products/systems/rutland-wind-pump-kit/

You may be able to replicate it, not sure myself.

Ben.
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ghurd

Senior

Posts: 674

Joined: Mon Nov 16, 2009 2:27 pm

Location: USA

Post Thu Jan 01, 1970 1:00 am

What pump, very specifically? And all the data f

What pump, very specifically? And all the data from the plate.

There is a reason for batteries, and I expect your plan ignores all the reasons a battery is necessary.

With limited power, the best option for aeration is using diffused bubbles in a riser pipe (ending just below the water line for practically 0 head) to circulate water from deep to the surface.
A DC air pump can move a lot of air, which moves a lot of water, for a little power, but they are expensive for what they look like.
A small system can move a lot of water in a day. It doesnt look dramatic but it works very well.
Google air lift pump for the principle.
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morglum

Posts: 52

Joined: Mon Nov 16, 2009 2:27 pm

Location: Québec, Canada

Post Thu Jan 01, 1970 1:00 am

Thanks guy!

Ill give the rutland a lo

Thanks guy!

Ill give the rutland a look.

As for the actual pump, I actually dont know what Ill be doing. All I know is that my dad was quoted 3000+$ for a system, so I thought there had to be a huge mark-up on it and Id give everything a look.

Im planning to check exactly what kind of pump he was offered when I go to his place this weeked.

I dont know at all what kind of system it is, I only just started looking at RE options. We actually have a small creek with a 10 feet high dam that could be a very cool micro-hydro turbine site, but its too far from the pond I need to aerate.

Ill google air lift pump, but do you have any suggestion for a pond that would be (if memory serves well) about 40 meter x 40 meters and a few meters deep?

Thanks



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morglum

Posts: 52

Joined: Mon Nov 16, 2009 2:27 pm

Location: Québec, Canada

Post Thu Jan 01, 1970 1:00 am

gotwind: just gave the rutland pump a look. Im a

gotwind: just gave the rutland pump a look. Im afraid I didnt explain myself well because it doesnt do what I need.

What I need is not to pump water out of the pond to drink it, but constantly pump air in the pond to aerate it.

The key is *constantly*. That means Ill need batteries, but since going through batteries loses efficiency, I was wondering if I could actually bypass them when there is so much wind I could power the pump directly from the turbine (not going thorough the batteries) and send the rest to the battery.

This might not be worth it, Im just wondering if its possible.

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morglum

Posts: 52

Joined: Mon Nov 16, 2009 2:27 pm

Location: Québec, Canada

Post Thu Jan 01, 1970 1:00 am

Just for feedback, I was hoping for a system like

Just for feedback, I was hoping for a system like the one in this auction:
http://cgi.ebay.ca/Med-Fish-Pond-Aerator-Aeration-COMPLETE-SYSTEM-New_W0QQitemZ160372473046QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item2556f1bcd6

which includes a "diaphragm" compressor that seems to take about 100W, some tubing and a sinking air diffuser at the bottom.

Thats my initial plan, without even looking at what was first offered to my father.
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ghurd

Senior

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Joined: Mon Nov 16, 2009 2:27 pm

Location: USA

Post Thu Jan 01, 1970 1:00 am

Reasons?
Just a feeling, mostly, that you ar

Reasons?
Just a feeling, mostly, that you are directly converting 120V AC amps to 12V DC amps, directly. They are not the same.
And AC is not at all like DC. (making it pretty much not possible)
And a loaded pump that operates at (ie:) 1A will not start with 1A, so a 17W 12V solar panel will not start a 12V 12W pump with a load.
And, And, And...

If your plan runs close enough to bother calculating them, then it will not work in any reasonable fashion.
Facts Suck, but facts are facts. Sorry.

The pump in the link is AC. If the plan is to run it with RE, then I strongly suggest looking into DC powered pumps, because the complete system will probably be cheaper. A LOT cheaper.

I can not focus on all that blabbering ebay text, but I did try! I see nothing that gives any relevant info.

Might want to look into an item called a DC-8, 15, 20, or 40.
This is not an endorsement, but a site that has decent info on a decent DC air pump.
http://www.dynamicaqua.com/aeration.html

Combine that info with air lift pump info, and you can aerate a decent sized pond with very little power.
(remember the vast majority of aeration occurs at the surface naturally, so you only need to move un-aerated water to the surface and let nature take its course)
If a fine bubble circular aeration stone is installed in a 4" pipe, a few feet down (2~4?) the pipe, and the pipe goes down to within a few feet of the bottom, then a little bit of air moves a lot of un-aerated water from near the bottom to the surface, with almost 0 of head.

"10 feet high dam that could be a very cool micro-hydro turbine site, but its too far from the pond I need to aerate."
Never underestimate the potential of 10 of hydro 24/7.
"Too Far" is related to cost for suitable wire, and for you "Too Far" is related to everything else.
G-

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DIY Darrieus Wind Turbine

Posts: 83

Joined: Mon Nov 16, 2009 2:27 pm

Post Thu Jan 01, 1970 1:00 am

Hi Everyone,

You could just use a wind

Hi Everyone,

You could just use a windmill instead of a wind turbine that when the wind blows pushes a piston up and down and pushes the air in the piston constantly through the pipes.

Hope this helps.


James
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tecon

User avatar

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Posts: 205

Joined: Mon Nov 16, 2009 2:27 pm

Location: Iowa, USA

Post Thu Jan 01, 1970 1:00 am

Wow, that a tough one - a 24/7 gurgler/bubbler fr

Wow, that a tough one - a 24/7 gurgler/bubbler from renewables might be a little on the difficult side.

Wind some of the time for sure, and certainly sun some of the time, but probably not either all of the time.

I myself might go with a solar setup (at least where I am at) mainly because it is the summer months here when most needed - no need to bubble it in the winter, let mother nature do what she does best and freeze it, not to mention our wind here in the summer time isnt very good.

I woudnt charge a battery, just utilize a bubbler when the sun is shining.

Just my thoughts, again, based on where I am located at.

Tim
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