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The Gotwind Forum • View topic - A Elect. motor to run an alternator

A Elect. motor to run an alternator

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PowerIvan

Posts: 1

Joined: Tue Jan 12, 2010 6:37 pm

Post Tue Jan 12, 2010 8:09 pm

A Elect. motor to run an alternator

I have 2500 watt inverter, 6 - 12v batteries, alternator.... Do not want to connect to a windmill or solar. What would be a good electric motor to use to run the alternator and charge the batteries? Can this be done? I just plug it in and create enough electricity to charge the batteries. I have not seen anyone doing this. Do not want to bike for power; just plug in and leave it automatic. Once again, can this be done and be worthwhile? Do not want to spend more on charging the batteries than what I get out of them..Let me know.. :) opinions on this. New to all this... :)
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Gotwind Ben

User avatar

Site Admin

Posts: 453

Joined: Tue Sep 08, 2009 5:10 pm

Location: U.K

Post Tue Jan 12, 2010 10:03 pm

Re: A Elect. motor to run an alternator

Hello 'PowerIvan'
I am at a loss to understand your first posting :?:
You've probably not seen it before because it is nonsense.

Surely using the mains power is the first option.
Then
Charging your battery bank from a mains supply would be most efficient.

Please expalain further if I have this wrong.
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new01xkrowner

Posts: 43

Joined: Fri Nov 20, 2009 1:28 am

Post Wed Jan 13, 2010 1:15 pm

Re: A Elect. motor to run an alternator

I'm pretty sure, almost positive, you will use more electricticy charging the batteries than the batteries will put out, so doing that is a complete waste of time. Unless you just want to do it for fun, or as an experiment. If that idea of yours worked, it would be making 'free' electricity, and everyone and their brother would have done it. There is no such thing as a perpetual energy machine, there are energy loses, unfortunately, through the wires, resistance, etc. and my hat's off to ya for a novel idea, but again, I'm almost sure it will take more electricity than it can give out. Hope this helps... That's why everyone uses the sun or the wind to charge the batteries, that's the sort of 'free' power to charge the batteries. I don't think anyone has invented something that produces more electricity than what is uses... It's like if you use a battery charger to charge a battery to charge another battery charger to charge another battery, better off just to use the first charger for each battery, maybe not a great analogy, but something like that....
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Fish4Fun

Junior

Posts: 273

Joined: Mon Nov 16, 2009 2:27 pm

Location: NC USA

Post Wed Jan 13, 2010 4:35 pm

Re: A Elect. motor to run an alternator

Ivan,

Why bother with the batteries at all? Why not simply connect a charger to the inverter and the inverter to the charger? Think of it, you could use the other outlets on the inverter to power your computer and your TV! :D Those crooks at the power company have been ripping us all off!

LMFAO

Fish
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ghurd

Senior

Posts: 674

Joined: Mon Nov 16, 2009 2:27 pm

Location: USA

Post Wed Jan 13, 2010 9:07 pm

Re: A Elect. motor to run an alternator

The idea was (a LONG time ago) fairly common... in some situations.
Example:
A 120VAC 400Hz US military surplus device, with enough importance to be useful after the losses and complexities, would be powered from a 120VAC 60Hz motor powering a 120VAC 400Hz generator to power the device.

My cousin uses something at work (he hates it because he is the guy who has to repair it). It uses a 120VAC 60Hz motor to power a 220VAC 50Hz thing from Germany.
I do not recall what it is, but it must be pretty darn specialized and overly precise to go through all the trouble.

Might find some antiquated information related to a 'rotary converter'.
The reason most people never heard of one is because it is generally a bad idea.

The way you are describing your thoughts about utilizing one are worse than shining a light bulb on a solar panel to charge the battery powering the light bulb.
It is the equivalent of punching a small hole in the gas tank, so you can fit more gas in the tank tomorrow morning. Just because the car gets 20MPG, and more gallons went into the tank, does not mean the car will go more miles before it is out of gas.

Like cutting off a leg to save money on shoes?
G-
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Fish4Fun

Junior

Posts: 273

Joined: Mon Nov 16, 2009 2:27 pm

Location: NC USA

Post Fri Jan 15, 2010 2:57 pm

Re: A Elect. motor to run an alternator

Ghurd,

**OFF TOPIC**

Rotary converters are still viable today. In areas where three phase power is either too expensive or completely unavailable, a rotary converter can be purchased to run three phase motors. For instance, in my area three phase is available, but prohibitively expensive for casual usage. If I could locate a surplus bridgeport or medium size engine lathe it would be considerably cheaper for me to purchase a rotary converter than attempting to retrofit the machine's power plant or acquire three phase power. 20 years ago I wanted to run three phase to my shop. To run the lines 40 feet and install the transformers the poco wanted $20k. The service was going to cost $900 per month + usage. I opted against :-) I truly do not understand why my local poco is so prejudice against running three phase to commercial locations, but they are. I run 5 tons of refrigeration and 9 tons of HVAC, in most areas three phase would be a cost effective alternative, but that power bill only averages $850/month using single phase. A buddy of mine in a different area has a wood shop with three phase power, his bill is never over $400/month, and he has a 75hp shaper that surely spikes the demand meter every time he flips the switch. Locally I know a man who owns an ice plant, in the summer his power bill is upwards of $25k/month! Another local business was purchased by a larger corporation several years back. The site is physically adjacent to a nuclear power plant. The large corporation sent in a EE team in an attempt to reduce the power overhead, which was averaging $1.5M/Month. At the end of the analysis the EE's determined that the plant's usage only warranted ~$500k/month. The corporation went to the poco and discussed the disparity in an attempt to re-negotiate the rates. The then CEO of the poco listened patiently to the presentation and then told them that the poco had no intention of lowering their rates. The team left, and a week later they announced their intention to build a large steam generation plant; and that the nuclear plant would be required to purchase the excess steam in accordance with federal guidelines. When completed, the plant would be required to purchase an estimated $250k/month of their excess steam. While the plant and the poco are distinctly different entities, the then CEO of the poco had a very sudden career change. The local papers and TV news had a field day, but local rates remained unaffected ;-) The new CEO of the poco obviously correctly ascertained that there were no other customers capable of circumventing their pricing structure. I never read or heard what the then CEO of the poco was making in salary, but loosing that particular account (regardless if the revenue was $500k/month or $1.5M/month) obviously angered the poco's board, and I would suspect the nuclear plant's parent company was less than happy to be required to accommodate their new neighbor's plans, though I suspect this was less annoying than dealing with the NRC. I have often wondered if the then CEO would have had the same career change had he decided to reduce the rates, perhaps met them half-way? Probably. I am not, in general, a conspiracy theory supporter, and I certainly have no affinity for my local poco; however, the track record of ADM:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Archer_Daniels_Midland

is somewhat darker than our little po-dunk poco. The local media fell just short of portraying ADM as the "David who slue Goliath", but the undertones were certainly present. I viewed it more like Goliath stepping on an ant, not out of any particular meanness; rather, oblivious to the trivial toils of the ant, aware only of the steady march along their path.

Fish
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Off the soap box :-)

Fish

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